East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

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East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Charged » Aug Wed 01, 2012 8:22 pm

I finally got out for the first time in a while. I ended up hitting the East branch of the Duper for a quick run.

I arrived on scene equipped with an old vintage "American Fork and Hoe" steel fly rod, and a Pflueger Gem all wound up with some old silk fly line that might be close to 40 years old (Now that I think about it, its probably even 10-20 years older, its amazing how durable that stuff is), and a pocket full of some home brewed flies. I was out there for about 1 1/2 hours, and was lucky enough to land about 35-40 fish. Here are a few pics of the big ones . ........ :wink:

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It was still a nice therapeutic way to spend a Wednesday evening. No monsters tonight, maybe next time. I did miss a really nice sized carp, that surfaced for my fly.


EDIT: I Just decided that the post would not be complete without posting a pic of the fly.

Image
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Charged » Aug Wed 01, 2012 9:59 pm

If any one is wondering why the cork grip on this old rod looks so new, the secret is "Soft Scrub".

http://www.officemax.com/office-supplies/breakroom-cleaning/cleaners-detergents/kitchen-cleaners/product-prod3660299?cm_mmc=Googlepla-_-Office%20Supplies-_-Breakroom%20and%20Cleaning-_-Cleaners%20and%20Detergents&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=22001922&gclid=CPaclO74x7ECFUYCQAodiVwA7g

I think this stuff is purposely designed for restoring old cork on fishing rods. It just takes about 30 seconds, and a quick palm washing under the sink to remove 40+ years of grime. The end result always looks brand new.

You also don't get the same ring type of texture that other cleaning methods produce.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Charged » Aug Wed 01, 2012 10:32 pm

TaterToT wrote:Good tip. I am gonna have to try it.


The rod in the picture, I believe was produced sometime in the 1950's or earlier, so if yours is newer expect even better results.

Tonight was the first time I ever fished it, and boy did it cast great. We have all this new technology available to us now, but to me even this old steel rod was a heck of a lot of fun to fish.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby BrookfieldAngler » Aug Thu 02, 2012 7:29 am

That's an awesome set up. Bamboo vs metal...what wins?
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Charged » Aug Mon 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Good question Brookfield.

Best answered with some measurements. I used the Common Cents system. http://www.common-cents.info/CCS_basic_Layout_1.pdf

Fist pic is a pic of the weight of my bamboo fly rod. 5.95oz, for a rod that measures as a 4.5wt through the common cents system.

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2nd pic is the steel fly rod in the pics, The rod weighed in at 4.6 oz. Note I have not measured this with the common cents system, but the line I was using weighed in at a approximate 5.5 wt with the common cents system.

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Now just for reference, I also weighed a 5wt TFO Lefty Kreh Signature rod. This measures as a 5.8wt rod though the common cents system. It weighs in at 3.6 oz.

Image

All three rods best cast a similar weight line. Hope this gives some perspective on how they might feel in the hand.

The bamboo rod I have is the heaviest of the three, and feels the most noodle like, but they do have a substantial following to this day. I do not think steel rods have any following at all, but have to admit it did cast pretty well, and feels much better in the hand than I would have suspected.

For me, all three rods are fun to fish in there own way.

From the looks and feel, a lot of people would mistake a steel rod for vintage glass, but refrigerator magnets don't stick to glass.

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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby BrookfieldAngler » Aug Mon 06, 2012 7:53 pm

Nice response and thanks for the thorough testing. The common cents test is a great rule and I wish it would be adapted into the manufacturers process.

I am really surprised at how light that metal rod is!!
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Charged » Aug Mon 06, 2012 9:14 pm

This test was missing a glass rod. Here is a 8 foot glass Featherlight. Common cents measures it as a 6.9 wt. It weighs 4.3 oz.

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Glass rod was 8 feet
Graphite 9 feet
Bamboo 8.6 feet
Steel 8 Feet

I was also surprised at the light weight measurement of the steel rod.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Rich » Aug Mon 06, 2012 11:41 pm

Charged wrote:...

Best answered with some measurements. I used the Common Cents system. http://www.common-cents.info/CCS_basic_]...


Thanks for this. I'd not seen this exact write-up before.
I'm interested in running some of my 'crazier' rods through .
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby BrookfieldAngler » Aug Tue 07, 2012 7:38 am

It's really a good idea to run all the rods through this system. One of my first St. Croix rods claimed to be an 8wt and after putting it through this, found that it was closer to a 6. Casting got a whole lot nice after dropping down in line.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby red_mucilin » Aug Tue 07, 2012 9:30 am

I clean up my cork with running water and a 3M scrubbie works really good no chemical weirdness.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Rich » Aug Tue 07, 2012 1:16 pm

...I kind of think cleaning cork is akin to worrying about scars.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby BrookfieldAngler » Aug Tue 07, 2012 1:57 pm

TaterToT wrote:
BrookfieldAngler wrote:It's really a good idea to run all the rods through this system. One of my first St. Croix rods claimed to be an 8wt and after putting it through this, found that it was closer to a 6. Casting got a whole lot nice after dropping down in line.


I believe that isn't really how your suppose to measure the line wt needed for the rod. (It might have worked for but just saying so others don't follow without looking into it.)

http://www.common-cents.info/caq.htm

I might be wrong but thought it might be worth sharing.


I am not sure of your path of thinking on this one. The common cents system is a way to effectively measure the true weight of a rod. The general best line for any given fly rod is one that matches this weight. If the common cents system effectively tells me that the rod is a 6wt, then the most obvious line choice would be 6wt line.

If I have a true 8wt rod and try to cast it with a 6wt line, I will struggle because there isn't enough weight/energy to load the rod. Visa versa is also true - if I have a true 6wt rod and put 9wt line on it, it will feel like a wet noodle because there is too much line weight for the rod to handle.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Rich » Aug Tue 07, 2012 2:06 pm

... but, I'd tend to wonder how the professionals at St. Croix got it so wrong . Kind of what they do, and have been doing for a living for quite some time. Just sayin'...
And, there is obviously more to the true classification weight of a rod than weighing it. Not that anyone has stated otherwise, just putting that ou there.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Rich » Aug Tue 07, 2012 2:25 pm

I believe this statement sums up a lot ;

"Feel is a subjective property and is a function
of the desired frequency of one’s casting stroke and
the weight of the line being cast. For that reason,
one often uses heavier lines for casting short distances
and lighter lines for casting long distances‚ÄĒ
this in lieu of drastically altering one’s casting
stroke."

I change up my line often and according to the style of fishing I do ,which includes weight of the fly , as much as any one variable. Use what works for you.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Charged » Aug Wed 08, 2012 7:24 pm

Rich wrote:...I kind of think cleaning cork is akin to worrying about scars.


I pretty much agree, I just clean the cork on used rods once just to try and make them look as nice as I can for my first outing. Once I get them cleaned up, I typically let them go. I just want to get the previous users grime off, my own dirt that gets added later doesn't bother me one bit.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby red_mucilin » Aug Wed 08, 2012 10:09 pm

"I'd tend to wonder how the professionals at St. Croix got it so wrong" :lol: other than that no comment except to say I still think they are 20 years behind the field. Guess I'll never be on their pro staff now.....
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Rich » Aug Wed 08, 2012 10:31 pm

red_mucilin wrote:"I'd tend to wonder how the professionals at St. Croix got it so wrong" :lol: other than that no comment except to say I still think they are 20 years behind the field. Guess I'll never be on their pro staff now.....


How'd I miss super-high modulus and titanium 20 years ago? Boy , I'd have jumped on that back then.
I guess they still do use cork...idiots.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Rich » Aug Fri 10, 2012 9:49 am

I hate foam too. Don't own any. But cork is so 120 years ago...

OK, just gonna come out and ask. Red , how to you quantify S.C. being 20 years behind any builder apples to apples? Are there parts I don't know of or building guides/formulas that are that far off? I know what goes into building a rod and the important , non-fluff stuff they have down pretty well. Fuji is Fuji...
And as a bonus, they are not part of the Mega-Acquisition-Machine that is Shimano.

Any guess at the age of the steel rod Charged? I'm a big sucker for the vintage stuff. Sorry for the hijacks.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Charged » Aug Mon 13, 2012 4:56 pm

Rich wrote:Any guess at the age of the steel rod Charged? I'm a big sucker for the vintage stuff. Sorry for the hijacks.


My research indicates that the company produced these rods sometime between the 30's and 50's. Its tubular steel and has a agate stripping guide, so I'm thinking its fairly early, but have not been able to pinpoint an exact year of production. I purchased a lot of three for 20$, this was the only one that had all its guides in place and was ready to fish without needing any work. I plan to eventually restore, and re-sell the others, but who knows when I will get to that project. Maybe sometime this winter. The two others are both a heavier action, probably somewhere in the vicinity of a 7wt.
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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Rich » Aug Mon 13, 2012 5:05 pm

Thanks for the info.
If you ever do decide to sell one of the others that needs work PM me and we can go over details.

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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby Jamesknowswarner » Oct Fri 02, 2020 7:04 am

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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby joetrain » Oct Fri 02, 2020 7:50 am

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Re: East Duper: A Metal Fly rod / Silk line, and some fun!

Postby RonG » Oct Fri 02, 2020 8:56 am

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