Chicago Fishing Forum banner
41 - 60 of 91 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
The cancer thing speaks to the point of caring for everyone. Why propose caring for vaccinated only if we care about all of society.

ps: I love these discussions. So many diverse opinions even though I’m always in the minority.

~JOE~
I'm not proposing to care about only the vaccinated. One of my best friends since we were 6 years old still chooses not to be vaccinated(and I don't love the guy any less for it), though he's getting ready to "take the plunge" :eek: ;) after he researched it, and learned on his own about it, and Covid as a whole.

My points are further down in that paragraph. I don't want to type them all again. Haha. My points weren't that I don't care about those who are unvaccinated, and if you misunderstood that, then I should have explained what I was saying better. My points are, the hospital trip would be unnecessary, and it would be "no big deal"(if they even had a breakthrough infection), if they actually had gotten the vaccine. Many don't trust our medical professionals to build a vaccine for this, yet they trust those same people with their lives, to treat the illness, if they contract it? Many of the same people working to build the vaccines are doctors and scientists in our hospitals, just like the ones in the hospitals treating these people for Covid. Seems silly to me, no?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,721 Posts
Ugly people like me have moved up a class since we started wearing masks. Covid19 isn't going anywhere. Between the jocks that think their body is a temple and they don't need a vaccine to the paranoid who don't trust the "government", unless said government says we should bomb a 3rd world country then those same exact folks quickly trust the government. These are the same people who are trying to squeeze themselves in between a woman and her doctor. You know religious extremists.

Our hospitals are overrun and our medical professionals are severely over worked because of the unvaccinated. It is the unvaccinated who will keep us in this ordeal for years to come. Deaths and hospitalizations are entirely unvaccinated people now. Now cue the response from someone that they found ONE case of a vaccinated person being rushed to hospital......

Imagine being so selfish and not wanting to be vaccinated for your fellow man.

#
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
Here you go. Not true. Here’s some data out of Britain that shows a higher rate of vaccinated deaths over non vaccinated. If you care to access it click the link in the article it will take you to the official government study. BOMBSHELL UK data destroys entire premise for vaccine push
I went on the official UK government website and verified that the link in the article is from the government study.

I’m not a religious extremist but I am a Christ follower and I will speak up for the rights of the unborn.

Marcus I’m curious as to your faith. Do you have any spiritual convictions? Just curious.

~JOE~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Remember, don't use your cell phone while driving,have concern for your fellow humans, you talk the talk,walk the walk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,694 Posts
Way to go, Rambler. Designing another thread to pit the zealots 🙏 against the Godless heathens.🐲
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,159 Posts
Please explain how Delta and other enterprises requiring vaccines to protect customers and coworkers increases the power of the state.
Given that airlines have never been profitable without being subsidized by the state, the just-a-few-opoly nature of the airline industry, it's incentuous nature with the military industrial complex (i.e. commercial jets evacuating people from Afghanistan, people bouncing back and forth for their careers), this is a horrible example for you to use. Delta is reinforcing the same power grab bullshit as the CDC, NGOs, etc and it's a plaything of the same group of people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,159 Posts
I volunteered to distribute PPE to nurses on Covid floors of a medicaid hospital I was working at twice a day, every day for the entire month of May 2020, on the west side in Chicago, when we were the epicenter of the global epidemic. Because I always felt an asshole for not serving in the armed forces. Much respect to those of you who have and hopefully now I have a dime to your dollar. Was not vaccinated, they didn't have one yet, ostensibly was exposed to multiple strains constantly. I never felt ill in any way and probably built up more immunity than a shot will give you. Given the risks of an untested vaccine (our lovely FDA typically puts drugs through a grueling, decade long approval process), what I feel are legitimate concerns about the motivation of those pushing the vaccines (vaccines have been associated with population control for over a century and we are starting to push critical mass if you ask the green crowd), and the redundancy of receiving a shot (I probably have more and better antibodies than you needle junkies already anyway), I feel my choice about how to govern my own body is well-informed, intelligent, effective, and forged in a pro-social spirit. I feel the same goes for tens of thousands of medical personell who worked a year or more, not a month, directly with Covid patients not handing out masks, without being vaccinated and never felt ill either, who have also built up immunity.

People rushed to the front lines, moved out of their family homes, worked grueling overtime and gave up their lives, breathed Covid daily without having a vaccine available, never got sick. Now you want to fire them for not taking a shot? While you were hiding working from home drinking bloody Marys in pajamas. Again they are way more immune than you and stood in front of you to protect you when this began and was truly scary.

Also be aware that fudging Covid numbers upwards basically means unquestioned, unaudited piles of cash from the government for healthcare providers, social services and other organizations intertwined with state and federal bodies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
Here you go. Not true. Here’s some data out of Britain that shows a higher rate of vaccinated deaths over non vaccinated. If you care to access it click the link in the article it will take you to the official government study. BOMBSHELL UK data destroys entire premise for vaccine push
I went on the official UK government website and verified that the link in the article is from the government study.

I’m not a religious extremist but I am a Christ follower and I will speak up for the rights of the unborn.

Marcus I’m curious as to your faith. Do you have any spiritual convictions? Just curious.

~JOE~
Did you go and read the actual report? The guy you're reading the link from, is an obvious wacko, and he's 100% misrepresenting the data in the report. In short... this guy is an idiot.

I looked at the charts. The deaths within 28 days of a positive test are broken down into two groups. Over age 50 and under age 50. In under age 50, there were a total of 71 deaths. A total of 13 of those were vaccinated, and 48 were unvaccinated. Then there were 4 who had received the first dose and over 21 days had passed, and 4 with less than 21 days after their first dose. Ok? That means 48 out of 71 deaths in all people under age 50, were unvaccinated. Funny how he ignores that bit of the report, huh? The part that argues against his misrepresented data regarding only those over age 50. The over 50 numbers actually do make some sense. For one, many of those unvaccinated elderly, likely aren't leaving their houses nearly as much as those under 50 who are vaccinated. So there is less risk for contracting it. Many have kids who are younger, and relatively healthy, who are asking their parents to stay home, and doing their shopping and errands for them. I know we did it for my parents for months. Those over 50 have far higher risk of death, vaccinated or not, if contracting it, as their immune systems aren't nearly as strong, and they generally have more health issues, overall. There is so much there that isn't accounted for in this guy's blog post, and his blog post is purposely misleading to fit his narrative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
I volunteered to distribute PPE to nurses on Covid floors of a medicaid hospital I was working at twice a day, every day for the entire month of May 2020, on the west side in Chicago, when we were the epicenter of the global epidemic. Because I always felt an asshole for not serving in the armed forces. Much respect to those of you who have and hopefully now I have a dime to your dollar. Was not vaccinated, they didn't have one yet, ostensibly was exposed to multiple strains constantly. I never felt ill in any way and probably built up more immunity than a shot will give you. Given the risks of an untested vaccine (our lovely FDA typically puts drugs through a grueling, decade long approval process), what I feel are legitimate concerns about the motivation of those pushing the vaccines (vaccines have been associated with population control for over a century and we are starting to push critical mass if you ask the green crowd), and the redundancy of receiving a shot (I probably have more and better antibodies than you needle junkies already anyway), I feel my choice about how to govern my own body is well-informed, intelligent, effective, and forged in a pro-social spirit. I feel the same goes for tens of thousands of medical personell who worked a year or more, not a month, directly with Covid patients not handing out masks, without being vaccinated and never felt ill either, who have also built up immunity.

People rushed to the front lines, moved out of their family homes, worked grueling overtime and gave up their lives, breathed Covid daily without having a vaccine available, never got sick. Now you want to fire them for not taking a shot? While you were hiding working from home drinking bloody Marys in pajamas. Again they are way more immune than you and stood in front of you to protect you when this began and was truly scary.

Also be aware that fudging Covid numbers upwards basically means unquestioned, unaudited piles of cash from the government for healthcare providers, social services and other organizations intertwined with state and federal bodies.
This isn't how immunity and antibodies work... More exposure doesn't mean you magically get more antibodies and immunity. When you get exposed to an illness, your body mounts an immune response, and creates an antibody response specifically built to fight that specific illness/bacteria/virus. This exposure means your body learns how to respond with its immune system to combat the virus. Pre-exposure, your body doesn't have any idea how to do it. Here's some actual information on antibodies and immune response. A single exposure generates the knowledge your body needs to build its antibodies to respond to something. Not only that, you don't keep the antibodies that are needed to fight something. They go away after a time when their job is done, and your body has a memory of it, so if it sees it again, it can start building antibodies for it again.

"You can consider antibodies as the soldiers in your body’s defense system. Each antibody, or soldier, in our system is trained to recognize one specific antigen. We have thousands of different antibodies in our bodies. When the human body is exposed to an antigen for the first time, it takes time for the immune system to respond and produce antibodies specific to that antigen.
In the meantime, the person is susceptible to becoming ill.
Once the antigen-specific antibodies are produced, they work with the rest of the immune system to destroy the pathogen and stop the disease. Antibodies to one pathogen generally don’t protect against another pathogen except when two pathogens are very similar to each other, like cousins. Once the body produces antibodies in its primary response to an antigen, it also creates antibody-producing memory cells, which remain alive even after the pathogen is defeated by the antibodies. If the body is exposed to the same pathogen more than once, the antibody response is much faster and more effective than the first time around because the memory cells are at the ready to pump out antibodies against that antigen."


And I'm sorry, but medical personnel DID get covid, and did get ill. They were also far more protected than your average individual walking down the street. Most are generally using N95 masks in the hospitals. Plus face shields. Plus gloves. Plus all the other care taken to try and prevent them from getting ill, like air tight rooms and segregation of those sick with Covid.

I also love how you talk about the "other side" pushing for vaccines... based upon no legitimate medical data, only your opinion, and preach about how you should be allowed to make your own choices... then you rip anyone else who DID get the vaccine, or doesn't agree with you about the vaccine. Needle junkies? Working from home drinking bloody marys in pajamas? Such nonsense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
You should here yourself guys,the insults, the hard feelings that will develop, none of you would last 5 minutes in my boat ,its hilarious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
You should here yourself guys,the insults, the hard feelings that will develop, none of you would last 5 minutes in my boat ,its hilarious.
I have yet to insult anyone in this thread. I just hate seeing wrong information pushed, and will correct it any chance I get. If there are hard feelings because I call out bs if it's bs, then that's on that person, not me. I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone on here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
No hard feelings here either. I agree the guy could be a whack job. Regardless of his mental state the over 50 numbers bear out what he is saying and I’ll agree there are mitigating factors in that age group. I posted the study in response to Marcus who said hospitalization and deaths are entirely unvaccinated.

I’ll post this again and Im guessing that this doctor knows more about this vaccine than any of us.

She testified that the vaccine does not stop the spread it only lessens the force or magnitude of the symptoms and that is only for the original virus not the delta version. Pay attention to what she is saying at the 1:30 mark. She says the vaccine has no ability to prevent infection by or transmission of the delta variant. Just before that her testimony was that the original strain is virtually gone now and the delta strain is on the scene now. Do a search on her and you will find people who refute what she says.

I crawled on a floor for forty years to make a living so that tells you how smart I am. I’m not an educated person but I do like to think for myself. Here’s how stupid I am. I was going to go fishing this morning but I lost motivation and instead I got on here and edited my post. What a dope! Bottom line for me is if I want the vaccine I get it , if I don't want it I don't get it. Same for everyone.





~JOE~
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,095 Posts
With respect to anyone's viewpoint, I do feel the vaccinations have been a disappointment. It went from you won't get it......to you may get it bit can't spread it......to you can get it and spread it but won't get sick....to you can get it spread it but may be mildly sick....to you can get it, spread it, get very sick, but probably won't die (although some do). It is easy to be skeptical of "follow the science" when experts have been wrong about so many things from the beginning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
Yep, to many lies from the get go based on unknown information. Lets also call it what it is, a therapeutic.


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
With respect to anyone's viewpoint, I do feel the vaccinations have been a disappointment. It went from you won't get it......to you may get it bit can't spread it......to you can get it and spread it but won't get sick....to you can get it spread it but may be mildly sick....to you can get it, spread it, get very sick, but probably won't die (although some do). It is easy to be skeptical of "follow the science" when experts have been wrong about so many things from the beginning.
Yep, to many lies from the get go based on unknown information. Lets also call it what it is, a therapeutic.
Easy to be wrong about a lot of stuff when it's something brand new that the scientists have never seen before, and are just putting out whatever information they figure out on account of the high demand for answers from the American people(and the people of the rest of the world). Just my opinion.

I'd be willing to bet that every single new illness that has been discovered over the history of science, there has been a ton of wrong information early on, and it gets more and more accurate as time goes by, and more and more research is done. I mean, early on they thought you could only get HIV/AIDS from being a gay man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,657 Posts
Discussion Starter · #57 ·
To SNE's point, Johannes Fibiger (I didn't make this up) won a Nobel Prize in1926 for "proving" stomach cancer is caused by microscopic round worms. Oops.

Science changes as the data it studies changes. All things considered we've made tremendous progress since the beginning of the pandemic. Scientists modified a 'platform' vaccine that had been under development for years to target this specific virus. It would be even more effective if the American people would all behave like adults and understand that being vaccinated prevents the virus from spreading and mutating.

Today it's Delta. Next month it might be another mutation the vaccines don't work on at all and then we'll really be in deep shit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
The US was funding research on this virus for years, so not really brand new. They kept screaming at us "follow the science", but yet the science was usually opposite of what they were telling us.

I still think it's a personal choice to do or not though and has nothing to do with patriotism or being an "adult". What of those that have natural immunity? Should they be forced to get the shot too just because someone says so?

I heard a report the other day on a local radio station, stating the current therapeutic was not very effective against the Animal House variant anyway, so we should keep pushing it on people ?

This whole thing has gotten to political. IMO the government and the "experts" have lied themselves out of credibility and have made it yet another divisive issue for our country.


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
The US was funding research on this virus for years, so not really brand new. They kept screaming at us "follow the science", but yet the science was usually opposite of what they were telling us.

I still think it's a personal choice to do or not though and has nothing to do with patriotism or being an "adult". What of those that have natural immunity? Should they be forced to get the shot too just because someone says so?

I heard a report the other day on a local radio station, stating the current therapeutic was not very effective against the Animal House variant anyway, so we should keep pushing it on people ?

This whole thing has gotten to political. IMO the government and the "experts" have lied themselves out of credibility and have made it yet another divisive issue for our country.


.
No, they were funding research on a platform for Coronavirus, in general, not this specific one... They've been funding research on cancer forever. Does every cancer get treated the same way? And the science is the science. As it changes, you pay attention to it, research, read, and listen to it. What natural immunity? Those who caught it and survived? You're still going to be susceptible to catching it over and over, and spreading it over, and over. Just because your body now has a memory of an immune response, doesn't mean you can't catch it multiple times, and keep passing it around. The purpose of the vaccine is to prevent you from catching it, not for treating it once you have it.

It's definitely political, but that's because of a previous President who downplayed the entire thing from the very beginning, assuring that his followers would feel like it wasn't a big deal... despite him taking it seriously, himself, catching it, and getting treated for it with the best medical care in the world, and also getting vaccinated for it, once available. And that's all I'm gonna touch on as far as the politics of it.

No one lied themselves out of anything. As knowledge of a brand new illness is obtained, the science behind it changes... I already cited one example of how that works with every illness throughout history.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
No, they were funding research on a platform for Coronavirus, in general, not this specific one... They've been funding research on cancer forever. Does every cancer get treated the same way? And the science is the science. As it changes, you pay attention to it, research, read, and listen to it. What natural immunity? Those who caught it and survived? You're still going to be susceptible to catching it over and over, and spreading it over, and over. Just because your body now has a memory of an immune response, doesn't mean you can't catch it multiple times, and keep passing it around. The purpose of the vaccine is to prevent you from catching it, not for treating it once you have it.

It's definitely political, but that's because of a previous President who downplayed the entire thing from the very beginning, assuring that his followers would feel like it wasn't a big deal... despite him taking it seriously, himself, catching it, and getting treated for it with the best medical care in the world, and also getting vaccinated for it, once available. And that's all I'm gonna touch on as far as the politics of it.

No one lied themselves out of anything. As knowledge of a brand new illness is obtained, the science behind it changes... I already cited one example of how that works with every illness throughout history.
Yes, gain of function because our government deemed those to dangerous to perform. Then denied they were doing that (and probably still are doing them) even though the evidence says otherwise. The CDC and Lord Faucci have lied through their teeth about that as well as the origins, amongst many other things- so yeah, the have lost a huge amount of credibility as far as a lot of people are concerned.

And yes, immunity from having had the virus. As far as I understand it, you're still susceptible to catching the virus even having had the shot, so a preventative it is not, it does seem to lessen the severity of symptoms though. So if there's 10 people, 8 have the shot, 2 do not- If the 8 have the preventative, why do they care if the 2 do not? Again a report I heard also stated the shot is not that effective against the current Delta strain.

I agree the previous administration did not start things off well, but the current clown show is not doing any better imo.

I've said my peace and will move along. So do it, don't do it, just let people make their own choice.


Let's go fishing and enjoy whatever time we have left, because no matter what anyone does, none of us are getting out of this any different than the rest and we'll all just be worm food in the end.


.
 
41 - 60 of 91 Posts
Top