[SmalliesNEyes]

I agree with SmalliesNEyes on location, location, location. Some rivers are better than others for more and bigger fish, some stretches of rivers are better than others, some specific spots tend to be better than others.

I know a guy who is a hard core river rat chasing smallies in the greater Indianapolis area and he gets phenomenal results. He says that there are 1000s of streams within 1.5 hours of his house that have smallies but only 10% of them hold big fish and those fish reside along 10% of those rivers. It takes exploring and that is part of the adventure.

On the bigger bait = bigger fish thinking, I've found that this is very location specific and does hold true for the Fox and DPR that have pretty good size bait fish. On the river I fish in Michigan though, the forage is smaller and big bait just equals less fish. I've had the best success on rivers like the one I fish in Michigan by throwing smaller baits and just weeding through the smaller fish to get to the bigger ones.

Same for me on the Mazon. I've caught three different 21-22 inch, 5+ pound smallies out of it. All three hit the same lure - a 2 3/4 inch Yo-Zuri Pin's Minnow. All came in what is basically the fastest moving water I had found in the river.

When I catch big smallies on the Fox, all of them have come in the fastest moving water around me, as my bait has gone past some sort of structure or seam. They dart out of their cover into the fast current and grab the bait. This is the life of river smallies. Like I said, they're very opportunistic, as with current, they have to be. Food moves on past them quickly.

 

[ganz1960]

Thanks everyone! A lot to think about here. Can't wait to get out to the Fox!

For myself and those who don't want to read all these posts, I put together a little bullet-point summary of the advice, starting with the tips I consider most important:

• Pay attention to what you wear, due to the strong correlation between clothing and fish size
• Only photograph and post bigger fish
• Don't be like Rambler
• Don't waste time on the river worrying about Trump
• Eat a shrimp cocktail so the smell transfers from fingers to lure
• Pay attention to eddies, large rocks, seams, bridge pilings--anywhere that affects water flow
• Focus on fast water with jigs on or near the bottom--and avoid insanely shallow water
• Observe without fishing--and read articles and watch videos about fishing
• Size of fish doesn't really matter--just being out is fun and fulfilling
• Consider upping the size of lures and trailers--though that may be river or situation specific
• Consider MaxScent trailers to leave a scent trail and help boost confidence
• Pay close attention to gear, line, drags, knots, and hooks to help ensure landing bigger fish
• Put in the time--exploring is much of the fun!

 

[ganz1960]

My #1 presentation for river smallies, from (post-spawn thru mid fall) is easily topwaters.

That's another thing I have to commit to trying more often. The very very few times I've tried topwaters in the Fox, I've stopped after a few casts because I felt the presentation suffered from the current being too fast (thereby affecting lure action or control) or the water being just too shallow (i.e., much slower current but too near the shore to hold any fish).

 

[HEDDONFROG]

My #1 presentation for river smallies, from (post-spawn thru mid fall) is easily topwaters.

That's another thing I have to commit to trying more often. The very very few times I've tried topwaters in the Fox, I've stopped after a few casts because I felt the presentation suffered from the current being too fast (thereby affecting lure action or control) or the water being jus

Thanks everyone! A lot to think about here. Can't wait to get out to the Fox!

For myself and those who don't want to read all these posts, I put together a little bullet-point summary of the advice, starting with the tips I consider most important:

• Pay attention to what you wear, due to the strong correlation between clothing and fish size
• Only photograph and post bigger fish
• Don't be like Rambler
• Don't waste time on the river worrying about Trump
• Eat a shrimp cocktail so the smell transfers from fingers to lure
• Pay attention to eddies, large rocks, seams, bridge pilings--anywhere that affects water flow
• Focus on fast water with jigs on or near the bottom--and avoid insanely shallow water
• Observe without fishing--and read articles and watch videos about fishing
• Size of fish doesn't really matter--just being out is fun and fulfilling
• Consider upping the size of lures and trailers--though that may be river or situation specific
• Consider MaxScent trailers to leave a scent trail and help boost confidence
• Pay close attention to gear, line, drags, knots, and hooks to help ensure landing bigger fish
• Put in the time--exploring is much of the fun!

I'm working so can't post much a reply but some of those bullet points are hilarious. Please stick around and post more. Fishing or otherwise. Freaking great

 

[Bassin' Ted]

• Pay attention to eddies, large rocks, seams, bridge pilings--anywhere that affects water flow
• Focus on fast water with jigs on or near the bottom--and avoid insanely shallow water

This was a book that was recommended to me in order to learn how to read rivers. I was able to find one through the library and photocopied all the diagrams. I found it very helpful as I was primarily a largemouth lake guy and knew very little about rivers.

ttps://www.amazon.com/Stream-Smallmouth ... 0811723844

 

[badger75]

Welcome to WCF!

Hope all the advice helps. I am a relative newbie to river SMB. Only been at this for 2 years while I have fished lakes for over 50 years. I am getting better, but do not yet get the size or numbers either.

I would also suggest seeing if you can connect with some of the folks from WCF. A few really helped me get the idea of what to do. An hour fishing together can really boost your understanding.

Not sure where on the Fox you hang out. I am in the Batavia area. PM me if you want.

I have also learned a lot by reading older threads. And I agree with all the advice above. I struggle with using too heavy of a jig. I often go with 1/4 oz but that is not always in the fastest water. I have also learned to use other techniques than those I consider "my go to's". Example - started to use the NED rig last year. Good results. Learned it here.

 

[mikeyd]

1. Find areas where water currents are traveling at different speeds and come together. Try all the areas: seams, holes under rifles, slack areas, fast runs, any cover, or even shade lines. Usually if you're near water at around 3' or more, you're good. Don't avoid the shallower areas near relatively deeper water.

2. Use bigger baits. Small baits work, but for a consistent bigger bite, use bigger baits. I like 4.3 or 4.8" swimbaits, 3/8 or 1/2 oz spinnerbaits, crankbaits, crankbaits, crankbaits, big topwater (whopper plopper, full size spook, buzz baits), 3/8 oz swimjigs, 1/2 oz football jigs, super fluke are some of my go tos. Heavier weights help ensure proper presentation with current. You don't want your swim jig or spinnerbait kicking off to the side or jigs traveling down stream halfway up the water column or unnaturally fast. "Match the hatch" experiment with shad, shiner, minnow, bluegill, and crayfish colors. Keep an eye out in the water for clues. Small baits have their place for me but generally in winter/early spring. Leave the spinning rod at home during warmer weather.

3. If you're around areas where there should be fish, switch up your bait or presentation every 10-15 minutes until you start getting bit. Sometimes it's as simple as a color change.

4. Learn to present the bait properly. If you're around grass or rocks, experiment with retrieve speed, rod angle, pauses, and twitches. You can use the current to present baits differently such as with flukes or swimbaits.

Good luck!

 

[catchafew]

1. Collect annoying little plastic toys that your daughter/granddaughter won't clean up. Toys with 1" heads of thick hard plastic work well and since they're made in China with lead paint it helps the sink rate.

2. Decapitate toy in a humane manor, you don't want the pansies blocking traffic.

3. Drill 3/16" hole in head, fish line through hole, add split shot for desired depth and tie on a #2 treble hook.

4. Fish near dramatic transition spots, adjacent to fast waters.

Now this fish was caught on an authentic LPS from the rare collection, beware of cheap Chinese knockoffs of quality made Chinese made toys.

Or just go large and obnoxious with 5" Chug Bugs.

 

[Rambler]

• Pay attention to what you wear, due to the strong correlation between clothing and fish size
• Only photograph and post bigger fish
• Don't be like Rambler
• Don't waste time on the river worrying about Trump
• Eat a shrimp cocktail so the smell transfers from fingers to lure
• Pay attention to eddies, large rocks, seams, bridge pilings--anywhere that affects water flow
• Focus on fast water with jigs on or near the bottom--and avoid insanely shallow water
• Observe without fishing--and read articles and watch videos about fishing
• Size of fish doesn't really matter--just being out is fun and fulfilling
• Consider upping the size of lures and trailers--though that may be river or situation specific
• Consider MaxScent trailers to leave a scent trail and help boost confidence
• Pay close attention to gear, line, drags, knots, and hooks to help ensure landing bigger fish
• Put in the time--exploring is much of the fun!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Great recap. Only point I'd take issue with is the 4th from last. Size is definitely river dependent. The lures you use on the Fox won't do at all on many of the smaller creeks around here. In fact, the setup you use for the Fox won't do on smaller creeks. If you ever decide to downsize your chosen water you'll need to downsize your gear accordingly.

 

[ganz1960]

This was a book that was recommended to me...

Thanks. I'll check it out!

 

[ganz1960]

I would also suggest seeing if you can connect with some of the folks from WCF. A few really helped me get the idea of what to do. An hour fishing together can really boost your understanding.

Not sure where on the Fox you hang out. I am in the Batavia area. PM me if you want.

Thanks! I just may do that. (We often go around the Aurora area, but we've been to Batavia as well as Oswego too.)

I struggle with using too heavy of a jig. I often go with 1/4 oz but that is not always in the fastest water. I have also learned to use other techniques than those I consider "my go to's". Example - started to use the NED rig last year. Good results. Learned it here.

I want to try and get better at the Ned rig. That's one of those presentations I have zero confidence in though. How can a fish find such a lifeless piece of plastic in the murk and current of the Fox river? But I know it works from reading posts here. I'll give it a try.

 

[ganz1960]

1. Find areas where water currents are traveling at different speeds and come together. Try all the areas: seams, holes under rifles, slack areas, fast runs, any cover, or even shade lines. Usually if you're near water at around 3' or more, you're good. Don't avoid the shallower areas near relatively deeper water.

2. Use bigger baits. Small baits work, but for a consistent bigger bite, use bigger baits. I like 4.3 or 4.8" swimbaits, 3/8 or 1/2 oz spinnerbaits, crankbaits, crankbaits, crankbaits, big topwater (whopper plopper, full size spook, buzz baits), 3/8 oz swimjigs, 1/2 oz football jigs, super fluke are some of my go tos. Heavier weights help ensure proper presentation with current. You don't want your swim jig or spinnerbait kicking off to the side or jigs traveling down stream halfway up the water column or unnaturally fast. "Match the hatch" experiment with shad, shiner, minnow, bluegill, and crayfish colors. Keep an eye out in the water for clues. Small baits have their place for me but generally in winter/early spring. Leave the spinning rod at home during warmer weather.

3. If you're around areas where there should be fish, switch up your bait or presentation every 10-15 minutes until you start getting bit. Sometimes it's as simple as a color change.

4. Learn to present the bait properly. If you're around grass or rocks, experiment with retrieve speed, rod angle, pauses, and twitches. You can use the current to present baits differently such as with flukes or swimbaits.

Good luck!

Thanks! Lots of good info here. Number 3 in particular resonates with me. I tend to stick with one lure whether it's working or not. I'm getting better, though, at changing lures more frequently and trying different colors and retrieves. I'll keep at it!

 

[ganz1960]

1. Collect annoying little plastic toys that your daughter/granddaughter won't clean up. Toys with 1" heads of thick hard plastic work well and since they're made in China with lead paint it helps the sink rate.

2. Decapitate toy in a humane manor, you don't want the pansies blocking traffic.

3. Drill 3/16" hole in head, fish line through hole, add split shot for desired depth and tie on a #2 treble hook.

4. Fish near dramatic transition spots, adjacent to fast waters.

Now this fish was caught on an authentic LPS from the rare collection, beware of cheap Chinese knockoffs of quality made Chinese made toys.

Or just go large and obnoxious with 5" Chug Bugs.

Ha! Wow. I don't have a daughter or granddaughter so I'll never experience the joy of catching a fish on one of these awesome baits. I'll have to accept that 5" Chug Bugs are as close as I'll get.

 

[ganz1960]

Size is definitely river dependent. The lures you use on the Fox won't do at all on many of the smaller creeks around here. In fact, the setup you use for the Fox won't do on smaller creeks. If you ever decide to downsize your chosen water you'll need to downsize your gear accordingly.

Cool. Good to know. I hope I can try some of the smaller creeks around here sometime. Seems like a different skill set and a fun time.

 

[Jimbo Slice]

Lots of good info here. I too am just learning how to read rivers. I resigned myself to the fact that river bottoms eat lots of my baits, but if I don't feel the bottom I don't catch fish. Bit frustrating at times, especially when you get about 2 casts and that $8 husky jerk breaks off. One of the hardest things to do is trying new techniques/presentations. It's easy to go with methods that have produced in the past and as a result give up on something new. Stick with it and as the results improve so will your confidence in that bait.

 

[Rambler]

^^^$8.00 for a lure? You need to join the AACB!

 

[Ken G]

I didn't fish much and never a river before I turned 40. That was 1996. After that, fishing the Fox River and the creeks that feed it became an obsession. For 19 years that's all I really cared about doing.

19 years later and 10,000 smallies caught, probably a lot more than that, enough was enough and I've pretty much quit fishing except for the occasional venture. If you factor in all the fish I had on and didn't land, or got hit and didn't hook, you can easily add another 10 thousand. And this is all just from the Fox and it's creeks.

My writings are still all out there somewhere along with my OCD way of keeping records. Those records show that in any given year, 15% of the fish I landed were over 14 inches. Biggest I ever caught measured out at 20.5. I like to think catching nearly 100 smallies a year over 14 inches is pretty good. But since I like quantity over quality, I'm pretty happy overall with what I used to catch.

Most important thing is to learn how to read water. With the guiding and fishing classes I used to do, I tried to teach anglers how to keep pinpointing a fishing spot down to the size of a coffee can. Most will never know how many fish they're walking past because they didn't slow down enough and fish those tiny spots. The other trick is that all live baitfish in the river are facing into the current, so why would you cast upstream and swim it down stream with it's ass to the current? I only cast upstream if I have to, which is rare.

But that's just me.

As for lures, you know how much I love getting made fun of for this. 3 inch pearl Producto twister on a 1/16th ounce jig. Learn how to use it. Not interested in hearing how you can't get that down to the fish. Sometimes I switch to other colors offered by Producto, but it's rare. It's caught nearly 90% of all those fish I caught over the years. In clearer water, deep pools on Fox creeks, the Apple, the Kank, you can't beat YUM crayfish.

To repeat myself, cause I'm getting older and like to do that, learn how to read the water. Something I used to tell anglers all the time... when you catch a fish, walk over to where it first hit and figure out why it was sitting there. Sometimes it's just random, but most of the time there's a reason even if it was just sitting behind a rock the size of a coffee can. There's a good chance that's where the minnows were congregating. Once you figure that out, repeat it endlessly everywhere you go.

Then there's my Fishing Assholes for Monster Bronze Bombers theory, but that's a different story.

 

[Rambler]

^^^Best bet is to listen to Ken. He knows of which he speaks.

 

[ganz1960]

I too am just learning how to read rivers. I resigned myself to the fact that river bottoms eat lots of my baits...

I'm preparing mentally to lose a lot of lures too. But I wonder: In the post from expert Ken G above, he advises to use a 3-inch twister on a 1/16 oz jig. Maybe that would prevent so many snags.

In any event, he agrees with what you're saying and I've been thinking: learning to read rivers is essential. Maybe the most important factor to success I imagine.

 

[ganz1960]

Most important thing is to learn how to read water.

Interesting. Especially where you mentioned elsewhere in your post about walking over to figure out why the fish hit. And to pinpoint the spot down to the size of a coffee can.

And also to learn how to use a 3-inch twister on a 1/16 oz jig.

Thanks for the info!